RegisterSearchFAQMemberlistUsergroupsLog in
Classcial Comp & bringing older students up-to-level

 
Reply to topic    Kolbe Academy Forum Index » Grade School View previous topic
View next topic

Classcial Comp & bringing older students up-to-level
Author Message
apavey



Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 6

Post Classcial Comp & bringing older students up-to-level Reply with quote
Could I please have a little more guidance on how to bring the older beginner student on board with the new curriculum. I have a sixth grader this year and it seems overwhelming (and a bit costly) to try and get through the first two levels and then make progress on the third level which is intended for sixth grade. Is there some kind of scope and sequence you could offer in that regard. Perhaps, not as much time is needed for Fable, but a little more for Narrative, etc. I did check on the offerings of Memoria Press (they do use the same curriculum) and found their middle school composition course to cover the first four levels! The first two levels are scheduled for the first quarter, the third level for the second quarter and the fourth level for the entire second semester. So perhaps, it isn't too ambitious to complete the first three levels in sixth grade? Would it be better to cover the first two levels in grade six and then the next two levels in seventh grade, or are levels three and four too much for a semester each? Also, is there any projection for the availability of lesson plans for the subsequent levels?
Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:06 pm View user's profile Send private message
Megan Lengyel



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 2443
Location: Alpharetta, GA; formerly, Napa, CA; originally St. Louis, MO

Post Reply with quote
Will pass this onto Marita for specific guidance. But I know from hearing Marita chat about the program, that the first year is very easy to zip through for older kids.

In terms of saving $, there isn't a combined book of the first two years to go faster, but if you are registered with us, you can just request the next course plan when you are ready for it. No extra cost there...

_________________
Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Online Academy Director
Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:30 pm View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
slhallford



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 68

Post Reply with quote
I have some questions about this myself as I also have a 6th grader this year. I've received the course plans and books for Fables and am positively confounded. Typically, the Kolbe lesson plans are outstanding and correlate directly with the textbooks and are generally quite easy to follow. Would it be possible to have an advisor walk us through them for the first lesson on exactly what we should be doing each day and using standard vocabulary with examples specific to the lesson? Retell, paraphrase, etc are so ambiguous that I'm not certain when they mean oral work as opposed to written work and since the plans seem entirely generic, it's difficult to infer what they should mean. If that isn't possible, who should I speak with to walk through this on the phone? I really want to make this program work but I'm frustrated with it and my apparent inability to internalize its structure.

ETA: I have read through the course plans as well as the teacher's manual.

Thank you,

Sarah
Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:39 pm View user's profile Send private message
Megan Lengyel



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 2443
Location: Alpharetta, GA; formerly, Napa, CA; originally St. Louis, MO

Post Reply with quote
Sarah-

Please know that you can call the advising office anytime as a registered family: 707-255-6499 ext. 5. Marita should be in today and can help aid you in working through the first lesson. The forum isn't really the best place to receive individualized help and is definitely not our primary means of helping our homeschooling families. Just a place for generic questions on the curriculum...

God bless,
Megan

_________________
Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Online Academy Director
Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:31 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
slhallford



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 68

Post Reply with quote
Thank you! I will give her a call. I think if I can walk through it, whatever it is that isn't clicking will fall into place.

Sarah
Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:38 am View user's profile Send private message
Megan Lengyel



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 2443
Location: Alpharetta, GA; formerly, Napa, CA; originally St. Louis, MO

Post Reply with quote
Oh and I forgot that we are closed today for the Feast of the Assumption... but tomorrow, Marita will definitely be in.

Happy feast day!

_________________
Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Online Academy Director
Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:43 am View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
apavey



Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 6

Post thanks Megan Reply with quote
Thank you Megan for passing the request along for further guidance. I noted your response to Sarah, and hope my question wasn't too specific. I am assuming there are many other families in the same boat and thought a quick guideline for how quickly an older child should be able to get through the first two or three levels would help! I am nervous about starting this program after reading the sample on the classical composition website and I am just hoping once I have the whole teacher manual in hand it would be clearer.
Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:32 am View user's profile Send private message
Catholicmommy



Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 40

Post Reply with quote
I am also interested in this specific question... I too have a sixth grader in the fall and would like to know specifically how to go through the books at a faster speed. As far as I can see there are a few options:

1) skipping some of the chapters entirely, or

2) skipping some of the exercises in each chapter, but still going through each chapter, or

3) doing every exercise in every chapter but doubling up every day. (this one seems like it's too much workload for a child and would cause them to hate the program before they even get to the level meant for their age.)
Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:27 pm View user's profile Send private message
Marita Vargas



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Post Reply with quote
UNDERSTANDING THE FULL PROCESS IS THE BEST DEFENSE:
1. Read, Retell, Outline, Paraphrase incorporating figures of description, Paraphrase by condensing, reversing, etc.
Reading and retelling are done out loud, the teacher checking for recognition, reversal, and all the story elements. (IT IS MEANT TO BE FUN).
Outlining is a joint activity, and it is a good idea to keep it this way throughout; mom working at the board and child in workbook.
Paraphrasing means the pencil hits the paper, and the real writing begins. Incorporating Figures of description means the child has an easy way of creating his own points of recognition (special note on recognition later). Paraphrasing in reverse or by condensing means he or she can manipulate the story elements. So far the student has treated a story the same way she treats a clock – she takes it apart to understand it and puts it back together again.
Key: Now, anyone, even a 4th grader, can go through all of this faster than the lesson plans. The key is to have the child work at the rate at which she can absorb the concepts. Concepts are king. That said, most kids won’t need two days to incorporate two figures of description or two days to outline and write a rough draft of a story they can retell to perfection at the family dinner table. Most of this will happen organically, by the nature of the thing.
The books are written for a school situation, not for a homeschool situation, and Kolbe has made it clear that the parent should set the pace. One lesson a week cuts the year on Fable in half. Others will start slow and accelerate later. Nevertheless, there is no real reason to rush.
On variation: Varying sentences can be those within the Fable, those given in the workbook, or a passage from a book. Any passage will do. Again, they are taking a clock apart (sentences and words), and putting them back together again. This doesn’t have to be a painful step. It is the one that builds the creative response. Some people will say that Class. Comp. Is not creative. Well, it is very hard to be creative if you don’t know the possibilities, have a solid vocabulary, and can’t construct sentences in a variety of ways.
On Narrative: to R, R, and story elements add suffering, agent, action, time, place, manner, cause (why) (the 5 W’s). Everything is common sensical; everything is common to the human experience.
On recognition: Recognition is on a scale from sensory details to emotional recognition. There are many points of recognition, but for students the easiest will be the figures of description. Think of recognition as recognizing in the story something that the reader has seen in real life. The emphasis is on the reader.
On reversal: Reversal has to do with the change in station of a character or characters. The lowly chrysalis becomes a butterfly; the earth bound ant suffers a blow to his view of himself. The emphasis is on the characters in the story, not the reader.
On Scope and Sequence: The S & S is the order of the stages: Fable, Narrative, Chreia, etc. You will want your children to look at movies or stories or novels with the components of a story in mind as they go through their day. You will want them to deeply internalize the R, R, S, A, Ac, T, P, M, and C. They will need it to construct general and specific “narratives” based on reason. Again real names will be used. You tell a narrative by way of creating background (What is called the “cause” paragraph; or by way of giving an example (What is called the example paragraph). So the S & S builds incrementally, but you’ll always know what is important.

_________________
Marita Vargas
Academic Advisor
Kolbe Academy Home School
Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:39 pm View user's profile Send private message
Marita Vargas



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Post Reply with quote
UNDERSTANDING THE FULL PROCESS IS THE BEST DEFENSE:
1. Read, Retell, Outline, Paraphrase incorporating figures of description, Paraphrase by condensing, reversing, etc.
Reading and retelling are done out loud, the teacher checking for recognition, reversal, and all the story elements. (IT IS MEANT TO BE FUN).
Outlining is a joint activity, and it is a good idea to keep it this way throughout; mom working at the board and child in workbook.
Paraphrasing means the pencil hits the paper, and the real writing begins. Incorporating Figures of description means the child has an easy way of creating his own points of recognition (special note on recognition later). Paraphrasing in reverse or by condensing means he or she can manipulate the story elements. So far the student has treated a story the same way she treats a clock – she takes it apart to understand it and puts it back together again.
Key: Now, anyone, even a 4th grader, can go through all of this faster than the lesson plans. The key is to have the child work at the rate at which she can absorb the concepts. Concepts are king. That said, most kids won’t need two days to incorporate two figures of description or two days to outline and write a rough draft of a story they can retell to perfection at the family dinner table. Most of this will happen organically, by the nature of the thing.
The books are written for a school situation, not for a homeschool situation, and Kolbe has made it clear that the parent should set the pace. One lesson a week cuts the year on Fable in half. Others will start slow and accelerate later. Nevertheless, there is no real reason to rush.
On variation: Varying sentences can be those within the Fable, those given in the workbook, or a passage from a book. Any passage will do. Again, they are taking a clock apart (sentences and words), and putting them back together again. This doesn’t have to be a painful step. It is the one that builds the creative response. Some people will say that Class. Comp. Is not creative. Well, it is very hard to be creative if you don’t know the possibilities, have a solid vocabulary, and can’t construct sentences in a variety of ways.
On Narrative: to R, R, and story elements add suffering, agent, action, time, place, manner, cause (why) (the 5 W’s). Everything is common sensical; everything is common to the human experience.
On recognition: Recognition is on a scale from sensory details to emotional recognition. There are many points of recognition, but for students the easiest will be the figures of description. Think of recognition as recognizing in the story something that the reader has seen in real life. The emphasis is on the reader.
On reversal: Reversal has to do with the change in station of a character or characters. The lowly chrysalis becomes a butterfly; the earth bound ant suffers a blow to his view of himself. The emphasis is on the characters in the story, not the reader.
On Scope and Sequence: The S & S is the order of the stages: Fable, Narrative, Chreia, etc. You will want your children to look at movies or stories or novels with the components of a story in mind as they go through their day. You will want them to deeply internalize the R, R, S, A, Ac, T, P, M, and C. They will need it to construct general and specific “narratives” based on reason. Again real names will be used. You tell a narrative by way of creating background (What is called the “cause” paragraph; or by way of giving an example (What is called the example paragraph). So the S & S builds incrementally, but you’ll always know what is important.

_________________
Marita Vargas
Academic Advisor
Kolbe Academy Home School
Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:39 pm View user's profile Send private message
apavey



Joined: 11 Jul 2009
Posts: 6

Post Reply with quote
Thank you, Marita, for that explanation. I just need to get over my need to have everything set in my planner as we begin the new year! We'll just start with Fable and see where it takes us! I will try to remember it should be fun! My hope is that my sixth grader will no longer dread composition.
Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:23 pm View user's profile Send private message
slhallford



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 68

Post Reply with quote
Thank you! That was very helpful. I have one more question. My third grader is fascinated by this program. She's been following along while her brother (my 6th grader) and I have been working on the board and really wants to participate. Since she's so entranced by it, I was considering having her do the exercises along with us. Is there any reason that I should put her off for another year?

S
Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:26 am View user's profile Send private message
Catholicmommy



Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 40

Post Reply with quote
Thanks Marita... Does Kolbe have lesson plans ready for the third level yet?

Slhallford, two other 'progymnasmata' type programs (classical writing and Writing Tales) start in grade three... and even the author of Classical Composition has mentioned that they might start the 3rd graders in their school on fable next year... so I don't see why a third grader couldn't start in the program. I'm using Writing Tales this year with my 3rd grader because I bought it before Kolbe came out with their course plans, but I might have, for ease of teaching, started him in CC if I hadn't.
Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:49 am View user's profile Send private message
Marita Vargas



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

Post Reply with quote
No CP's for third level. I've been on phones for years now (OK, weeks), and haven't written the darn tests. Oh well, it will seem like a vacation when I get back to it. Also, 3rd grader, go for it. You will never run out of Fables and folk tales to rewrite if you hit the maturity wall before you start Chreia. That is, if she's not ready to ponder great mottoes, you can always extend the Fables/Folk Tale idea until she is ready. Have I pointed out this great perk yet, there are limitless lesson plans available to you once you've made the method a part of yourself. Rewriting can extend to any text, any text. In fact, university instructor, Gregory Roper, has put together a college text that uses the imitation model. He uses everything from 13th Century verse to Ernest Hemingway stories to get the students going. So, how's that.

_________________
Marita Vargas
Academic Advisor
Kolbe Academy Home School
Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:27 pm View user's profile Send private message
Catholicmommy



Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 40

Post Reply with quote
Thanks again Marita, I'll be waiting eagerly for the 3rd level.

We have already done quite a bit of fable work in another program before this one. After spending all day reading through the teacher manual and the course plans, I am thinking that the easiest way to condense the fable program for an older child with experience in narration, and re-writing, is to maybe pick 10 out of the 20 fables. Do you think this would work?

Last year we were working on a similar routine to classical comp using longer narratives (a page or two long). This was in the program Classical Writing. We did this all year, although in the paraphrase part, we never did any inverting, or starting from the middle. I think that if we spent the whole year in fable, it wouldn't challenge her very much. I am thinking that we will likely do 8 of the fables at a faster pace of one per week (instead of two per week)and then move onto Narrative for the rest of the year.
Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:51 am View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:    

Reply to topic    Kolbe Academy Forum Index » Grade School All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to: 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP